vfr 800 vs vfr vtec

[Nebari]

Disfrutaaaaaa!!!!, verás que como buena VFR que es todas ellas son cojonudas.

:wink:

[JAVI-SVQ]

Que la disfrutes con toda la ilusión del mundo,  q es lo q cuenta.
:wink:
V´sssssssssssssss

[Valvulillas]

Yo he tenido las dos y prefiero sin Vtec. :wink:

[Uve]

De todas formas...me quedo con la 800FI. Cascada de engranages...FOREVER.

Zi, zi, pero coloraaaaa ehhh,   , que callao te lo tenías , a mí me suenan unos mensajes sobre los colorines de hace tiempo, que si las plateaaas, que si patatín, que si las coloraaas no se que ...  no se, no se, te suena Deivid . En fin David, con menuda máquina te has hecho y encima en el color que más realza sus curvas, ahí ezz naaaa, zi eq yo de mayollll quiero zelllll como tú :wink:.

Por cierto que hay otro miembro del club afincado en la costa Almeriense, originario de las tierras de la Alhambra que es justo el caso contrario, ¿verdad?, :lol:.

Si es que yo creo que de todos los mensajes, los que han dado más juego son los de los colorines, es pa mear y no echar gota, pero es así, vamos si es así.

En cuanto al tema del que se trata, pues eso que voy a decir que no se haya dicho, que la cascada perfectamente la podían haber mantenido en la Vtec, será por eso de añadir un punto más de mantenimiento que es donde realmente ganan cuartos los fabricantes, estoy de acuerdo con Jaso en eso de la Inercia, tener en cuenta que solo tiene que mover dos válvulas por debajo 6800rpm, al tener cadena pues el motor es un poco más estrecho y con ello la moto en sí, el estructurado de masas parece un poco diferente y mejorado en la Vtec (centro de gravedad), pero vamos son cosas que hay que ser muy fino para apreciarlas.

De lo que me extraña que no habléis, es de la famosa diferencia entre ambas, que es la frenada, que si hacéis memoria seguro que os acordáis, se habló mucho de ello y que incluso había una página web donde te indicaba como permutar los latiguillos o algo así como cambiar el sistema de frenada de la 800FI a la Vtec que incorpora la segunda versión de Dual-CBS mejorada y estudiada por Honda.

Si encuentro la web la pondré, pero creo que era algo así, como que el Dual de la 800FI lleva las mismas pinzas de 3 pistones que la Vtec, pero en la 800FI al pisar el pedal trasero activas los dos pistones de los extremos del trasero y los dos centrales de las pinzas delanteras, este reparto de frenada delante-atrás al parecer era un poco excesivo delante ya que al frenar tanto de delante en plena curva tiende a levantarte un poco la moto y abrirte la trayectoria.

Vamos digo yo que no será para tanto y es cuestión más bien de acostumbrarte, pero con la llegada de la Vtec después de muchos estudios, con el pedal trasero seguías comandando los dos pistones de los cilindros traseros, pero ya solamente uno de los delanteros, los 3 de la pinza delantera derecha van todos accionados por la maneta. Con esto se consigue un reparto de frenada delante-atrás más equilibrado, pero también algo más de potencia de frenado con la maneta delantera (que es realmente la que para la moto), pues en la 800FI la maneta comanda 5 pistones en total (1 trasero indirectamente y 4 delanteros de ataque directo) y la Vtec 6 (1 trasero indirectamente y 5 delanteros de ataque directo). Bueno, hay más diferencias pequeñas, por ejemplo lo del Vtec, que con unos buenos escapes, para mí es la vidilla de la moto, el consumo, que ahí también se nota la tecnología de la Vtec (la V del 98-99 tiene fama ser la más gastona de todas las VFR y con el precio de las gasolinas actualmente), pero no sigo que me enrollo y luego ...

[Uve]

Bueno pues lo encontré, lo del cambio en la frenada de la 800FI a la Vtec, pero el sitio (la URL) me dice que es temporalmente inaccesible, pero como yo suelo guardar estas cosas en mi disco duro aquí lo tenéis. Esto era lo que había que hacer para adaptarlo a la segunda generación de Dual-CBS, que es el que lleva la Vtec, pero recuerdo que en el club ya se habló del tema, tiene que estar por ahí, y en los sitios donde estuvo anteriormente el club, miarroba y todos esos también recuerdo.

5th Generation VFR LBS 3.0 to 4.0 Upgrade
Posted on Monday, August 11 @ 13:42:43 CEST
Topic: Product Reviews A fellow lister on The Big List (raphael) wrote up an article about changing the 3rd generation Linked Brake System as found on the '98-'01 VFR800 to the more enhanced and overal better system of the '02-'03 VFR800 VTEC. This because the older version of LBS has not such a good distribution between front and rear.
This modification is relatively easy to do, and with great results in feel and stopping power of your VFR800!
Many thanks to Rafael and kudos to him for figuring this out, so more VFR riders can have the benefits of this mod.
08/12/03: diagrams of the DCBS system were added to clearify the differences between the different versions

Reasoning
Ever since I've had this 5th generation VFR800 (1999) with the 3rd generation Linked Braking System (LBS), I've thought that the brakes needed a bit too much effort to stop quickly. I like the LBS - it's a clever, useful system - but I just felt like they got the leverage ratios all wrong. The front ratio is too low, and the rear is way too low (the "rear" brake sucks). So I set out to try to improve that "cost effectively" - e.g. like not swapping in the front-end from a CBR954RR. I figured there was no help for the rear brake, since the master cylinder bracket is molded into the VFR's right footpeg bracket (which, of course, is not interchangable with any other bike's).
To date I've tried:
•   Upgrading the brake pads to HH+ (DunloPads) - maybe a little bit better than the stock HH pads, but nothing to write home about. Cost: $80
•   Installing braided steel brake lines in the front - looks cooler, but I didn't realize that the old front lines were actually just fine until I swapped them for the steel lines (translation - not much difference). The stock lines are more efficient than a dual-line system (shorter overall). Cost: $114
•   Switching to synthetic brake fluid (Castrol) - no discernable difference, but the old fluid was, well...old, anyway, and needed replacing. Cost: $10
•   Changing the front brake system from 4 pistons to 5, similar to the 6th generation VFR800's 4th generation LBS - Effectiveness??? Cost: $55
Calculations
Going purely by the numbers, it LOOKS like it will work, but everyone knows that numbers only tell half the story:

STOCK LBS 3.0 SYSTEM: The front lever has a direct 15.7 leverage ratio, with an effective 20.2
The front/rear bias is 78/22
The rear lever has a direct leverage of 6.7
The front/rear bias is 50/50

LBS 3.0 AFTER 4.0 UPGRADE:
The front lever will have a direct 18.9 leverage ratio, with an effective
23.4
The front/rear bias will be 81/19
The rear lever will have a direct leverage of 5.0
The front/rear bias will be 33/67
Method of Upgrading?
Okay, we've got the idea, we have analyzed the numbers... now how do we actually implement the system? Okay, so we call up Melissa @ CycleBrakes (800)805-2118, and describe the situation! Initial idea is to link the two banjo bolts on the right front caliper together, but they are too close together and the bleeder screw is directly in the way. So we figure out - we can just run another line from a double banjo bolt from the OTHER CALIPER - perfect! Have I lost you yet? No problem. I'll explain more in detail in a second.

Diagrams
For those of you not familiar with the LBS function:




Parts Required

For the 3.0 to 4.0 LBS Upgrade:
•   Custom stainless line, 65cm center-to-center, 40° fitting on both ends. (required, available from CycleBrakes)
•   Double banjo bolt for left caliper (required, available from CycleBrakes)
•   At least 7 crush washers (required, available from CycleBrakes)
•   Single banjo bolt for right caliper (optional, or new available from CycleBrakes)
•   A 10mm x 1.25 pitch x 10mm length bolt OR a 10mm x 1.25 pitch x 20mm length bolt AND a nut which is what I had to use, since I could not find a shorter bolt (required, available at ACE Hardware or similar)
•   Brake fluid for bleeding (required)
•   2 cable ties (required)
For the 3.0 to 4.0 LBS Upgrade AND replacement of the front lines:
•   Above listed items (required)
•   A front stainless steel brake line kit for a 1993 CBR1000 non-ABS +1" on both sides (required, available from CycleBrakes)
•   Double banjo bolt for master cylinder (required, available from CycleBrakes)
•   Another single banjo bolt for right caliper (optional, or new available from CycleBrakes)
•   At least 5 more crush washers
•   1 more cable tie
Walk-through Installation
Although this is a simple enough procedure to explain with words, let me explain with pictures just to make sure all the bases are covered:
Look at this left caliper. The top banjo bolt is controlled by the front lever. The bottom bolt is controlled by the back lever. In the middle is the bleeder screw. If we install a double banjo bolt into the UPPER banjo hole like this...


And we run a "crossover line" from the left UPPER banjo hole, over the fender like this....:


Over to the LOWER banjo bolt on the right caliper, like this...:


All of a sudden, the left caliper hasn't changed any, but now the entire right caliper is under the control of the front lever, giving it more piston area for the same amount of master cylinder area - therefore creating more leverage (it is removed from the rear)!
Now, you may be asking yourself, "Is it as easy as it looks?" Well - almost. You MAY have to cut 1 tab on the delay valve found on the right fork. I say MAY because I could not find a 10mm X 1.25mm pitch bolt and nut with a 12 or 14mm head on it. You MAY be able to. All I could find at the hardware store was 17mm head bolts and nuts. So, the tab on the delay valve had to go!


When you remove the line that goes from the lower banjo bolt on the right caliper to the delay valve, you'll have to plug the hole. I would like to have used a "short" banjo bolt, or a single banjo bolt and a collar the size of a banjo fitting, but I wanted to get this done, so I used what was available. I slipped a crush washer onto the bolt, screwed down the nut to 15ft-lbs, slipped another washer on there, screwed it into the hole, and tightened to 15ft-lbs again. Out of sight, out of mind.
NEW Bleeding Procedure
Looks like we'll have to bleed the system now that the new lines are installed - but how? Rear is essentially the same, except you do not bleed the right caliper with the rear lever. For the front, bleed the upper right front caliper normally, then the upper left front, and then the lower right front. Do a good job!! This is very important!
Optional Replacement of Front Lines
Now, I have tried to word this so that it will work with the stock front lines, because that is what I actually recommend, but some of you may want to replace the front lines with braided steel while you are doing all this. While I will not walk you through that here, I will show you two more places where you will have to remove tabs, requiring the use of a very small cutoff wheel and a Dremel-type device. On the master cylinder:


And on the LEFT caliper:

LBS Upgrade Evaluation
I immediately noticed a difference just pulling out of the driveway! There is about 20% more power available at the front lever than before, but what will actually happen in practice is that you will just end up pulling 17% less on the lever to achieve the same results. I over-braked for about the first 1/2 hour after installing the system - you get used to pulling on the binders so hard, and it's a little hard to change. If you're using this bike on the track, you will have to adjust your braking markers - I'm not kidding. There is a big difference that is apparent immediately. After riding for another 2 hours on the "new" system, I have already gotten used to it - but now it feels "right" instead of feeling weak. When I pull on the brake lever, I say to myself , "Now THAT is the way it should have felt to begin with." It will feel like the brake is too sensitive for the first few miles, but in all actuality, you're pulling on the lever too hard (so was I). Theoretically, there should be MORE lever pull, but I can't tell the difference (I have not measured it). To tell you the truth, it FEELS like I am pulling the lever LESS than before, so take that for what it's worth.
The rear brake you ask? It still sucks, BUT at least it has firmed up a little (because it is pushing fewer pistons), and I feel better knowing that it is that much closer to being a "real" rear brake while still keeping the LBS.
In Conclusion
Please drop ME an e-mail after you've installed the system - I'd like to have a sort-of "testimonial" section to follow.......thank you!
CBR1100XX motorcycles have a very similar system on their bikes, so this procedure should work as well on those bikes, BUT I don't know how long the crossover line or front lines will have to be, so MEASURE THEM YOURSELF AND THEN LET ME KNOW. I will add it to the page.
When I am happy that the page is correct and tested successfully by others, I will submit it to the other VFR and CBR1100XX sites to post in the How-To sections.
Ride safely, and remember: your brakes are your most important piece of safety equipment. Your helmet, suit, gloves, boots and back protector are backup.
Raphael
raphael@sv1k.com
This idea happily brought to you by: Attention Defecit Hyperactivity Disorder. ^_^

[davidvfr96]

De todas formas...me quedo con la 800FI. Cascada de engranages...FOREVER.

Zi, zi, pero coloraaaaa ehhh,   , que callao te lo tenías , a mí me suenan unos mensajes sobre los colorines de hace tiempo, que si las plateaaas, que si patatín, que si las coloraaas no se que ...  no se, no se, te suena Deivid . En fin David, con menuda máquina te has hecho y encima en el color que más realza sus curvas, ahí ezz naaaa, zi eq yo de mayollll quiero zelllll como tú :wink:.

Por cierto que hay otro miembro del club afincado en la costa Almeriense, originario de las tierras de la Alhambra que es justo el caso contrario, ¿verdad?, :lol:.

Si es que yo creo que de todos los mensajes, los que han dado más juego son los de los colorines, es pa mear y no echar gota, pero es así, vamos si es así.

Me va a salir caro el tema de los colores!!!  :oops:  :oops:
Y lo bien que me lo paso metiendo caña?!?!  :twisted:  :twisted:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Jaso_VFR]

Me va a salir caro el tema de los colores!!!  :oops:  :oops:
Y lo bien que me lo paso metiendo caña?!?!  :twisted:  :twisted:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Y nosotros metiendote caña a ti  por chaquetero, o debiamos decir colorero??? :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:

[Uve]

Me va a salir caro el tema de los colores!!!  :oops:  :oops:
Y lo bien que me lo paso metiendo caña?!?!  :twisted:  :twisted:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Y nosotros metiendote caña a ti  por chaquetero, o debiamos decir colorero??? :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:  :juass:

.